Wednesday, July 28, 2004

In the beginning

In the beginning, the world was formless and void. And the spirit of the Creationists hovered over the waters, proscribing just how God was permitted to create the Universe, lest the creationists' faith be bruised by the knowledge that the world was in fact older than 6000 years. And lo, God spake and said "has it occurred to you that I'm quite capable of doing this without your input?" Verily, the creationists were astonished by this hubris and said "well, when your Son comes down in some future age and he gives his life for the sins of the world, we'll make sure that when we spread that message, we'll encumber our audience with unlikely claims of lions eating vegetarian and Koala bears walking across two continents and swimming an ocean to get to their habitats. And we'll also insist that if they don't beleive our claims, then they can't really be saved, can they?"

And God said "Do I know you?"


PolemiCol said...


I'm going to enjoy reading your blog. I like what you write and how you write it.

Keep it up.

Tony said...

CLICK! Bookmarked.
I love your blog. You are an awesome writer. Keep up the good work, and -shameless plug- come visit my blog! :)
Tony Huddleston

Anonymous said...

Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Sanity prevails...You prove my maxim that to get the true Christianity, u need NOT park your mind at the door.
Expect a lot of traffic I am directing your way!
Lotsa love, another sane Christian who will NOT be voting FF.

Anonymous said...

Onya! Pedro

Anonymous said...

Very nice indeed. :)

I particularly like the bit where the flood happens after writing is developed... and there is a constant written record back to before the flood. Stupid egyptians obviously didn't read the bible and they forgot that they were dead, so they just kept on builging those pyramids.

Or maybe God put the pyramids on earth to test the arrogance of man (which is obviously why he put the fossils in the ground -- as says the crazy FF supporter at my blog).

John Humphreys

Anonymous said...

You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures. Straw-man arguments do you no credit. Why not direct readers to-
-where they can judge for themselves.

Justin Warner said...

OK, I don't know if commenting on a comment is legitimate, but the guy who said "You are in error because you do not know the Scriptures" - You really need to work on your approach to meaningful discussion. Posting a link to a website makes your point about as much as me posting a link to a New Age site makes me a god. Which I'm not, thank God.

Nathan, while I'm not sure I always agree with your steadfast faith in the achievements and discoveries of man, I always appreciate your (always well presented) point of view. There will be more comments in the future, of that you can be sure.

Anonymous said...

1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
2 Now the earth was [a] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light. 4 God saw that the light was good, and He separated the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day.

6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water." 7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. 8 God called the expanse "sky." And there was evening, and there was morning—the second day.

9 And God said, "Let the water under the sky be gathered to one place, and let dry ground appear." And it was so. 10 God called the dry ground "land," and the gathered waters he called "seas." And God saw that it was good.

11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morning—the third day.

14 And God said, "Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark seasons and days and years, 15 and let them be lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth." And it was so. 16 God made two great lights—the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth, 18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good. 19 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day.

20 And God said, "Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the expanse of the sky." 21 So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good. 22 God blessed them and said, "Be fruitful and increase in number and fill the water in the seas, and let the birds increase on the earth." 23 And there was evening, and there was morning—the fifth day.

24 And God said, "Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: livestock, creatures that move along the ground, and wild animals, each according to its kind." And it was so. 25 God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.

26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, [b] and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.

28 God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air and over every living creature that moves on the ground."

29 Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food. 30 And to all the beasts of the earth and all the birds of the air and all the creatures that move on the ground—everything that has the breath of life in it—I give every green plant for food." And it was so.

31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.

Anonymous said...

Spot on to that last post. Perhaps if "so called" christians took God at his word, they, like Zamprogno, might not get sucked in by evolutionary garbage and cause "real" damage to the church. Perhaps if they learnt a little Hebrew and studied Genesis word for word, they may not call God a liar and accept what he has said as being the truth. Perhaps after realising the overwhelming evidence in Genisis of a literal 6 day creation process and no suggestion what so ever of any evolutionary processes in the creation, they would question why they try to reconcile evolution in any form with God's stated work. Perhaps if they realised that evolution is still a theory and not a proven fact, they may question why it is taught in schools as being fact and propargated so much in every thing concerning science. Perhaps if they realised who is behind evolution and the propargation of it, they might understand why they should not try to mix it with Christ.
Perhaps if Zamprogno was really a Christian and truly believed what God has said, he might not try to destroy the church as he is trying to do. Far from his claims that the creation movement is dying, it is obvious he has his head in the sand. If my understanding of God is correct, then I am confident that anything conjured up by man (evolution and it's buddy, theistic evolution) will be the ones that die.


Unknown said...

Rarely do I find someone who hits the nail so close to my heart. If only the majority of fundamentalists could read this, know what it means, and live their life like they should without encumbering the masses with their self-righteousness. /salute, Well said.

Monkeytree said...

For me, the conflict is simply this: Genesis does describe how God created the world in six days, and it gives a lineage of descendancy that places the world at several thousand years old since creation.
However, observing the world around me (with my admittedly limited brain), it really does seem that there are some very, very old things, that appear to have become as they are through the passage of a very long time (perhaps millions of years).
This leads me to conclude one of two things:
1. that the genesis description of creation is correct, the earth is quite young, and there is something I simply don't understand which does perfectly explain why things appear old but aren't; or:
2. that the world is, as it appears, millions of years old, and the genesis description of creation is not literal.

I don't place "faith" in science; it is by definition going to change and adapt over time, and is simply our best understanding of the way things are, given current observations.
I do place faith in God, and whether or not it turns out that the Genesis creation is literal or not, it doesn't alter my faith.

Personally, I haven't resolved this apparent conflict between what the bible says and what observable nature says.
On one hand, I'm not a genius science professor and I have limited understanding about natural phenomena, so I could be mistaken in my observations.
On the other hand, I do have a good head on my shoulders and I do have some understanding of the natural world (plus respect for other people smarter than me, and their conclusions).

For me, a perfect example of an apparently old phenomenon is the moon. I only recently learned why one side of it always faces the earth, and the other side gazes eternally out into space (this has always been a puzzle to me). The reason is that the side facing the earth is the "heavier side". As an analogy, take an egg and float it in water. Then set it spinning over and over itself. Eventually gravity will cause the spinning to slow to a halt, and the egg will settle with the heaviest side down. The same thing has happened to the moon - a long time ago, it might have been spinning any which way, but over the eons it has settled under the earth's gravitational pull to a complete halt - this implies a long time of gravitic exposure. Unless, of course, there's some aspect of this I simply don't understand which would allow it to happen within a few thousand years.
I mean that last statement genuinely, although it's hard to state it without it sounding sarcastic.

I'm not hung up on this though - whichever way ends up being true, it doesn't change the gospel of Jesus or the reality of God, or my salvation.